Jan 23, 2008

Hidden numbers on Sunda Trench page

Well done to Puffinin for this find tonight. Does it have any relevance? You decide?

I have darkened the screengrab to show the numbers better.

Update 03:58:- People have asked where this can be seen. It is very very faint on the Sunda Trench website on Sam's laptop. In the right hand corner.

Update 04:26:- Thanks to thebruce for a higher quality image below.

Update 05:00:- It appears some of the people in chat (too many names to remember) have figured out that we could have a link to the poem found yesterday.

The first lines of the poem are:-

When I heard the learn’d astronomer;
When the proofs, the figures, were ranged in columns before me;
When I was shown the charts and the diagrams, to add, divide, and measure them;

So the proofs and figures have been ranged in columns for us on the Sunda page.
We seen the charts and diagrams and added and divided them.

We now just need to measure them. But what do we need to measure?


tina_nettles said...

Where was this?
In the computer on Sam's desk?
On a separate website?

RFisher33 said...

This is found on the Sunda Trench site on Sams laptop in the bottom right corner

Blake said...

Good catch - I see it there too.

Is it me, or has the map of Sunda Trench changed as well? It looks like the coloring is different.

Kessler27 said...

Nice find! I brought up the 815 site and had to look at the page on an angle. Even then I could barely see it!

It's been a long time since I had a real math class, but I think on the bottom is and equation that basiclly state "equals the sum of" a or b or c... etc divided by 6.

I'm on it!

maven said...

The whole page seems to have numbers on it. The writing about the trench has numbers along the left side. I had to put my screen way down on an angle to see it. Good catch!

Kessler27 said...

I added the numbers in each column and divided by 6 like the equation says and came up with these numbers:
a: 115
b: 89
c: 105
d: 109
e: 109
f: 114

anyone else do this? more coordinates?

RFisher33 said...

OK I get,

a = 115
b = 104
c = 105
d = 109
e = 109
f = 114

Kessler27 said...

104 is right for b, thanks!

thebruce said...

here's an easier to read (image)

and just so it's all in text:
a) 109, 108, 127, 115, 116, 115
b) 50, 111, 123, 104, 110, 126
c) 120, 105, 88, 99, 119, 99
d) 109, 114, 66, 125, 123, 117
e) 19, 96, 92, 117, 119, 121
f) 114, 121, 114, 119, 123, 93

DawgfatherJr said...

I wonder if these are ASCII? Go here:


115, 104, 105, 109, 109, 114 comes out to "shimmr"

It also looks like all the numbers in the columns could be ascii as well.

Rafaella Albuquerque said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rafaella Albuquerque said...

= ∑ a/6

Rafaella Albuquerque said...

= ∑ b/6

Rafaella Albuquerque said...

= ∑ c/6

Rafaella Albuquerque said...

= ∑ d/6

RFisher33 said...

thebruce, I have added your image to the post. Thankyou

Rafaella Albuquerque said...

= ∑ e/6

I See that...

Amanda said...

Does the summation symbol mean that we need to add those numbers together to get single digits? (I am SO not a math person...)

If that's the case, the numbers are:

a = 7
b = 5
c = 6
d = 1
e = 1
f = 6

If these are meant to correspond to the alphabet, we get GEFAAF. The only anagram of that I can find is "a gaffe".

I don't know if any of that is relevant or not. *shrug*

RFisher33 said...

amanda, you add each column up and then divide by 6 to get the answer to each column.

RFisher33 said...

OK the first 3 lines of yesterdays poem are

When I heard the learn’d astronomer;
When the proofs, the figures, were ranged in columns before me;
When I was shown the charts and the diagrams, to add, divide, and measure them;

Well the figures have been ranged in columns, we have added and divided them. Now we need to measure them whatever that means.

Thanks to all the people in chat tonight for this info

Amanda said...

Yeah, I took everyone else's answers from that equation and added the three digit numbers together to get one digit, just in case.

(i.e., Column A's sum was 115, so 1+1+5=7.)

Didn't know whether it would help or not. Just shot in the dark!

Vanessa said...

Can anyone get a real good blown up pic of the sunda trench itself from the email? I think the measuring may have to do with it. Thanks!

Amanda said...

Vanessa, this isn't real clear, but it's something! Hope it helps!


Tom said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
fantasy677 said...

The rest of the poem talks about the stars and astronomy. Do these numbers point to something in the stars?

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

I don't think those are numbers along the right hand side (going up from column F).

I think they're the holes along the side of a sheet of tractor-fed printer paper.

Although there is a geometric-ish pattern to the lines behind those numbers.

Vanessa said...

what do you think the relationship is between what each letter equals and where that number is in the column?

For example,
a=115, 115 is in the 6th row of column a
b= 104, 4th row
c= 105, 2nd row
the rest in the 1st row

RFisher33 said...

I am leaning toward these being stellar coordinates or something as mentioned above by fantasy677.

I have no idea where to input them though. Has anyone tried google earth's space section?

RFisher33 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
roundfour said...

what about 'measure' as in music...?

roundfour said...

also, any regard to numbers being left justified? and added accordingly, with no numbers in 'ones' column on bcdef? then columns add to 115, 179, 534, 208, 391, 253.5

thenickodemus said...

Are these not meant to be the sigma function of the total (for the column) divided by 6. There has to be a reason for the sigma symbol being there! Although I couldn't tell you what that new set of numbers would be....its been a long while since math classes...

JDMCMAMC said...

Just to throw a few more numbers into the mix:

The sum of the six calculated numbers is 656 and the average of those numbers is 109.3333 etc.

Addictedfan said...

Couldn't the final summations of each column then divided by six each be some type of celestial coordinates maybe used for nautical navigation? Is there such thing as a nautical navigation guide? I know...I'm reaching but???

Cobines said...

conveniently every average is integer

Elizabeth said...

Did anyone notice that the average of each column (the sum divided by 6) OCCURS in each column? Their positions in the columns are 4, 4, 2, 1, 1, and 1. I don't know if that could be significant at all ...

Adrian said...

some are mentioned twice in each column... so it would be

Also, I notice that there is a pair of lines leading exactly from the a at the bottom of the first column to the letter b at the top of the second column. Perhaps the solution from columnn a is meant to be fed into column b, and so on?

Adrian said...

a4 a6 b4 c2 d1 e1 f1 f3
On a six by six grid (map), these could correspond to certain boxes.

Adrian said...

I think it must be true that the average numbers are used in the solution, and fairly certain that the placement(s) of the average number within the columns is significant.

Bolivar Baez (2006-5715) said...

well, im sure it has something to do with night navigation, using stars. When you use stars you have to measure the height of the North Star above the horizon to determine how far north or south you are. Also he talks about an astronomer and says this "Look’d up in perfect silence at the stars." at the end.

Adrian said...

In fact if you create an exact six by six grid, and place a dot in the center of those boxes I described above, the shape looks kind of like the big dipper... and it has some symmetry.

Bolivar Baez (2006-5715) said...

lol...look at what i found..


I suggest you give it a rest for now. It says that "when i was shown the charts and the diagrams" but we only have the charts, which we already did the add and divide, we just need the diagrams to measure them.

isid said...

Just to say that Sum a/6 could be:

109/6 + 108/6 + 127/6 + 115/6 + 116/6 + 115/6.

María said...

I don't know if this matters at all, but just in case...
I added the columns, like everyone else.
I divided each result, like everyone else.
But: when you get each column's result (like 690/6=115 for column a) that final number (115) is once or twice entered into that same column. So, column a has: 109, 108, 127, 115 , 116, 115.

So maybe it's the pattern that the "repeated" numbers make what will tell us something later on?
Or maybe I've just gone nuts already...
The pattern would look something like this (Xs for "repeated" numbers)

o o o x x x
o o x o o o
o o o o o x
x x o o o o
o o o o o o
x o o o o o

Anything? Because this is as far as I got... *sigh*

Cobines said...

6 is a common divider. it's the same, unless you take integer partial results.

Kgun5 said...

Could "measure" simply mean to cite the difference between the averages we found? For example, 115 -> 104 = -11
104 -> 105 = 1

The result of this is -11, 1, 4, 0, 5. Perhaps a new lat. coord?

Also, and anagram of "shimmr" mentioned above is "hmm sir".

Just some thoughts.

Krisch said...

I tried to zoom into the drawing behind the numbers, but it disappears. I think it's because of Flash and has to do nothing with the game.

Kgun5 said...

Now that I think about the anagram of "shimmr" more, it looks like it could be "HMS xxx".

Krisch said...

Could also be "Mrs. Him" :D

andrea said...

Maria, is that a constellation?

Pink said...

Ok, so here's the original jpg used on the site :

Now look at these next pictures :

In these images from the original there's no sign of any additional hidden info

Dmitry said...

If we sum the results and divide them by 6, we will give 90,17, may be this but i don't know

Dmitry said...

I was wrong in calculations, real sum and divding are 109,33

xENigMAx said...

I made this img following maria's previous post...maybe another useless speculation...but just take a look:


I just drew a track between the obtained poins into a 6x6 grid.....I also made a "Sunda-version"...any ideas?

It also could be a constellation...or another freaky useless creation! :P

isid said...

One more view of the hidden numbers.


dtape0467 said...

i was just on find815.com, and i couldn't see the numbers or any hint of them at all.

forensicoo7 said...

Back to the letters shmmrs, this could possibly be an anagram for HMS SIR...as in the senior official in charge of the HMS. The HMS M2 was the name of the submarine file name that was found on the Sunda Stories website. It could faintly be seen in the one "image not found" placeholders. Could the last name of official in charge of that vessel be a password or a clue to something else?

Kgun5 said...

"HMS SIR" has two "s"s in it instead of two "m"s.

Save_The_Hobbit said...

I'm glad you guys are all smarter than me. :)

I'm horrid at math, so I'm just gonna' take a backseat on this one.

xmozzazx said...

isid said...

Just to say that Sum a/6 could be:

109/6 + 108/6 + 127/6 + 115/6 + 116/6 + 115/6.

That's where these come from, just to be clear here.

a) 115
b) 104
c) 105
d) 109
e) 109
f) 114

xmozzazx said...

'Shimmr' in Flickr has only two results:

which saves as


which saves as a typical flickr picture:


I think that 'spaceball' is odd for in there, but it's probably nothing.

wesb said...

When we take the six averages, 115, 104, 105, 109, 109, and 114, and substitute their ASCII values, we get s-h-i-m-m-r. It's not a word, but it's pronouncable. A password, perhaps?

justashepard23 said...

could these numbers be broken down into letters like someone did with the arrows and # symbols, converting it to braille then making a melody out of it.
Are there any songs adapted from Walt Whitman poems out there?

justashepard23 said...

Plus even if its just a coincidence, I love that an anagram for Walt Whitman is "man with walt". I know this has been discussed already but its so cool!

knives2gunfights said...

Okay, this is a long train of thought, and as such may just be shots in the dark, but that seems to be how these things are solved, so bear with me here.

I took María's lead with marking the final summations/divisions (a=115, b=104, etc) on a 6x6 grid as she did. With a-f running horizontally, i numbered the grid vertically 1-6

--a-b-c -d-e-f

reading it like a game of battleship, you get: a4, a6, b4, c2, d1, e1, f1, f3.

Then thinking back i remembered hexadecimal code uses the letters a-f and numbers 0-9, so I inverted the combinations to get: 4a, 6a, 4b, 2c, 1d, 1e, 1f, 3f, all of which are hexadecimal codes that can be translated into binary.


The text translations of these binary codes are meaningless ( J j K , (none) (none) (none) ? respectively) but their numerical translations turn out to be:

4a= 74
6a= 106
4b= 75
2c= 44
1d= 29
1e= 30
1f= 31
3f= 63

This is as far as I've gotten, and I'm not sure if I've actually gotten any closer. Since we may not even have all the pieces we need to solve this, we'll have to wait to see if this is anything. Any other ideas?

jandredesz said...

Wow, if I were putting this game together, it would give me so much satisfaction to read the comments of you guys in this section. You really are extraordinary in your efforts.

Kgun5 said...

knives2: Why did you reverse the numbers before translating them from hex? i.e., why did you turn "a4" into "4a"?

ToxicAvenger said...

If you put the letters instead of making a binary code you get an hexadecimal string that can be converted in RGB colors. For example, instead of 000101 for the first column you get 000a0a, 000b00 for second etc.. converting they give (divided by columns): R0 G10 B10, R0 G11 B0, R12 G0 B0, R208 G0 B0, R224 G0 B0, R240 G240 B0.Remembering the red pic in the vid maybe this colors had to be taken away from the sunda image to get something. Think about the poem: after the measure we have to look at the sky (the image is above the columns)Just a try!

knives2gunfights said...

I reversed the pairs before translating because from what I gather standard hexadecimal notation goes 'number/letter' (though I've never worked with this code before). I reran the original pairs and got this:

a4= 164
a6= 166
b4= 180
c2= 194
d1= 209
e1= 225
f1= 241
f3= 243

quite a different set, but still nothing I can make sense of.

knives2gunfights said...

There has been some interesting distortions of the Sunda Trench page when people try to highlight the columns of numbers. Anyone who thinks they can try different color schemes with the map (or another picture from somewhere else?) should give it a go. That's a really interesting idea.

Kgun5 said...

knives2...I can understand why you may have thought that way, but hexidecimal "letters" are treated exactly as their integer counterparts are. A through F are just used because we have no single digit to represent 10-15. Hope this helps.

terentule said...

it's also interesting there is only one number in each column that could be divided by 6

Franech Johilan said...

Here is some visualisation for all of you:


DawgfatherJr said...

Let's say that this is an ASCII puzzle, and that the solution to this puzzle is, in fact, "shimmr". I'm thinking that maybe this is a password for http://www.the-maxwell-group.com/

If that's the case, then what would the login be? Ideas?

forensicoo7 said...

No clue, but it doesn't matter because according to the site it won't be up until 2/1/08. I can't see them giving us a password to the website this far out. My guess is that it'll make a lot more sense tonight when more of Ch.4 is released.

d said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
d said...

the lowest number in the grid is 50 and highest is 127, a difference (measure?) of 77. A number we've seen before.

Also it looks like there are quite a few numbers that are multiples of 11 in there: 66, 88, 99, 110, 121

MoriaFalls said...

I was just doing some research on the Sunda site. I have found some Interesting common denominators.

www.findoutpedia.com has got to equal Wikipeda

Wikipedia gives USGS maps almost identical on there page of Sunda. Sunda is also called The Java trench. We had to use a Java link to get the binary code off openstego.

The USGS has a very interesting site. It was modified in December 2007. No other USGS site had been Modified, as far as I can tell.


OK...this is where it gets tricky. If you do some research on this site you will get to this page http://geomag.usgs.gov/intro.php. About Halfway down it explains the geodynamo... It has 6 different forces a,b,c,d,e,f. This has to tie in somehow on the numbers and letters we got off of Openstego, and the Find815 laptop hidden numbers.

There is also more on this I think we need to use this http://geomag.usgs.gov/models/ and try to figure it out.

There is one other interesting thing, http://www.intermagnet.org/ you have to go to the mirror site but maybe there is a clue here some where.

I think the Walter Whitman theory has gone far enough, My gut feeling is that this Has to do with the USGS, Not the poem.

MoriaFalls said...

Not trying to beat a dead horse... I believe I have a site that can end the debate


This has all conversions for all versions of the code, I think the poem is too shallow of an answer for such a deep question. Lets all put our heads together on this one...Live together, Die alone.

Mrs. Jarrah said...

Hey everybody!
I've been following this blog for quite some time now and have been amazed by all of your findings...I always seem to find out things last!
I was checking the oceanic site (http://www.flyoceanicair.com/) today and it seems that when, watching it full screen, something is written right above the slogans 'in your wildest dreams', 'fly oceanic' et cetera ...It looks like '819' or maybe even the word 'big'..? Anyone sees it too? I've tried to make it more visible in photoshop, but no luck yet..a

forensicoo7 said...

I could be wrong, but I find it highly unlikely that find815.com would be able to enlist the help of the gov't to further their online game.

mattcar said...

I was looking back at info on the trench from the begining of the ARG and I found something interesting you might remember this page had a pic of J C Maxwell and a slave ship diagram. it alos showed 3 unloaded pic spots at the bottom and these numbers look like they would fit right in to one of those spots but that leaves 2 more spots to keep an eye on here is the link to that pic http://bp3.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/R30lMKPcwsI/AAAAAAAAP-g/AbXNw1XoBCs/s1600-h/SundaTrench_2_V.jpg

wasm said...

I think its a latitude: -11.1405.
It'd be 2.6 miles north of the old latitude.

justashepard said...

i was looking at sam's computer and maybe i'm late on this but on the "sunda stories" there is hidden text at the heading of one of the pictures that says
"British Submarine HMS M2.jpg"
Is this new info?

forensicoo7 said...

Nope. Google it and you'll get some info. on Wikipedia about Portland, etc.

Trevor B said...

Hi all. I posted this at the ABC site already, but thought I would share it here as well:

OK, I don't have an answer, just maybe something to push some of the smarter people in another direction :)

I think the Whitman poem, together with the numbers on the Sunda site, are too much of a coincidence. Therefore, I agree that we've added & divided (as per the poem) but not measured.

Thinking about measurement in terms of navigation, all of the numbers from the Sunda site are less than 180, which could mean they correspond to angles? I was thinking specifically about the sextant using angles for navigation, but can't make the connection myself.

If not angles, then maybe longitude? All these values, I believe, fall within the longitudinal boundaries of the Sunda trench.

Also, maybe the Maxwell Group logo (the one on http://the-maxwell-group.com, with the "75" where it should be "60") needs to be used here? I haven't heard of anything using that out-of-place 75 yet.

If I make any progress on my own, I'll be sure to let everyone know.


justashepard said...

thankyou forensicoo, feel way behind for that one. Don't let me interupt the nerds, please solve the next clue. you're usually done before the next update.

Pennyforyourthoughts said...

someone mentioned a measure of music earlier, so i thought i'd try:


probably nothing, but this is my attempt at putting our "points" (a4 a6, b4, c2, etc) into a treble cleff "measure". the a6 would have to be middle c.

if anything its a new tune to hum in my head while i try to figure this thing out..lol

ReignkingTW said...

I decided to find the numbers by adjusting the contrast myself...it took a while. I cannot believe someone found this...

Faisal said...

i think that MoriaFalls findings are very very interesting,
http://geomag.usgs.gov/ seems to have something related to the game,
there is the usgs logo on the map at sunda trench site (left bottom)

i don't know, but before anything, we should wait for today's events, it may save us some time an affort

but we should keep http://geomag.usgs.gov/ in mind

J. G. said...

Well... I Desagree...

If the added numbers are equal to the total of a/6, b/6, c/6, d/6, e/6, f/6...

A = 4140
B = 3744
c = 3780
d = 3924
e = 3924
f = 4104

That's because the numbers supra when divided for 6 are equal to the added numbers in the column...


ReignkingTW said...

I just noticed that the 2 o'clock on the Maxwell Group logo reads 75 degrees, not 60 degrees. Doubtfully related, but I just happened to see it.

blandestk said...

I think we might be on the wrong track. The 6 could refer to the sextant, a device used for measuring degrees and charting the heavens. Perhaps the sextant is the device we're looking to use for the 'measurement.'

elpaw said...

Here's my take on things: imageshack

Save_The_Hobbit said...

xmozzazx: SometimesFlickr saves images as spaceball. I've got no idea why, but it happens all the time. Nothing to do with the game, I assure you :p

tvwatcherinvt said...

I was doing some reading at that geomags site...the interesting things I have done playing this game!...Anway, that whole earth's magnetic field polarity reversal is scary facinating.

tvwatcherinvt said...

"During a reversal, between polarities, the geometry of the magnetic field is much more complicated than it is now, and a compass could point in almost any direction depending on one’s location on the Earth and the exact form of the mid-transitional magnetic field. One of the things that is interesting about reversals is that there is no apparent periodicity to their occurrence. Reversals are random events"

probably nothing to do with the game, but cool as s----!

Donnie said...

ourmutualfriend42 has posted a pic ture to the Find815 flickr site with the tags shimmer and shimmr. He has a really interesting gallery. Stars and what not that seem to be inline with the poem. Might be a clue

fantasy677 said...

I don't think we should discredit the submarine HMS M2.jpg thing yet. As far as I know, this has been the only "unloadable" picture that has an actual file name - that's not an accident.

So if you take away the HMS of "shimmr" you are left with IMR. HMS IMR. Not sure what that means but perhaps people can help me start Googling it. I have found that IMR stands for "Inspection, Maintenance, Repair" when referring to ships.

I found this site with a timeline of the seawaves throughout history. If you search for IMS, it comes up in 2005. The word "HMS" is all over the place, including 2005 and on.

Yea, I'm not sure where to go from here...but I thought I'd throw it out there.

fantasy677 said...

From an article on Time Magazine:

With adaptive optics, a computer can measure the shimmer [of a star] and cancel it out.

N1teShift said...

Umm how exactly do they locate things underwater, what kind of coordinate system do they use??? Could these numbers have something to do with underwater? If so this could tie into finding the plane underwater like Naomi said.

N1teShift said...

Check the other websites on his laptop, on the Maxwell search page there is something on the bottom right area, but I dont have any image software on this computer to find out what it has.

Anulla said...

I agree that this has something to do with celestial navigation. And I'm also trying to figure out how a sextant figures in. But I find that there is not enough info to link it to a sextant navigation. May be there will be more to come. Like another activity, or more numbers.

afflictedmuse said...

I know this is like, just out there, but has anyone taken a HP or TI with graphinh and entered these into it and graphed it? I was staring at the sigma symbol in my textbook during statistics lecture tonight and it hit me to try graphing these coordinates.

Then I promptly left my backpack in my car which my husband took to work.

It's just bugging me now, if not it can wait until morning.

Aelith said...

Xemgniax said:
"I made this img following maria's previous post...maybe another useless speculation...but just take a look:


I just drew a track between the obtained poins into a 6x6 grid.....I also made a "Sunda-version"...any ideas?

It also could be a constellation...or another freaky useless creation! :P"

OMF's photo of the big dipper mirrored suggests that if you mirror the above graph you will have a measureing spoon. Perhaps the sums/6 is the plot graph to finding Black Rock.