Jan 10, 2008

815 is near Sunda Trench: Which is BALI

Thanks to Cryan for the following.

I was thinking about the time plot of the find815 game, previous seasons of lost and the Season 4!

What I plotted:

- In final of Season 3: Jack was flying over the 'world' various times by using 'the gold pass' given.. (According to his words: ..gold pass given to US!-According to me all the ones who could leave the island.. (Season 4 trailer says that 'someone' will be able to leave the island)): So it means that Oceanic is on duty! Which means that this happened AFTER the game...

- In one of the Season 3 episodes, Naomi says that: Wreckage of the 815 was found off coast of Bali! But video 1 of find815 tells that they couldn't find anything and the search for the plane was stopped and Sam mentions about the plane in the first diary as DISAPPERED (not crashed,not found, etc.): So this means that game time is before Naomi stepped on the island..

so I think this brings us that: now in the game, we will try to find the 815 wrekage, which we will really find at the end as the solution of the game BUT which will not help us AT ALL because we already know from Naomi that it was found before she came to the island!

So i think this game will help us to find out the missing parts about what happened in 'real life (during our losties on island)' until the 815 body found! Maybe it can give us an idea about 'if Naomi was telling the right about the wrekage found, if really there were bodies inside, or many similar ones, (any parallel time effect etc)..'

Here is another clue for me to think in this way: Please have a look at the picture at the link: http://www.drgeorgepc.com/tsu77Indonesia.jpg

Actually the picture of Sunda trench on Sam's notebook is a little bit small and doesn't give us a bigger view.. I found a zoom out picture of the area. If you look closely, you will see bali, as one of the Sunda Islands in the middle... So.. We will find the 815 body at the end of find815 game, off coast Bali, but not our dear island or losties..

I am open for any comments of yours..

57 comments:

Dan said...

I thought this was already assumed to be the final outcome of the game...

Fat Lazy Guy said...

Not sure about the Bali thing, but everything else is exactly what we've assumed all along.

Fat Lazy Guy said...

Haha, I was typing as dan was posting I guess :D

Jacob said...

your time line of the game could be flawed. You based it on whether naomi was telling them the truth. She could have lied.

richlost said...

The wreckage of flight 815 is on the island, we saw the plane crash from the plane's perspective, and from Ben, Juliet, and the Other's perspective.

experimentalfilm! said...

exactly what i was thinking jacob . we can't assume shes telling the truth about this . when did they we say the interview of sam in video 1 took place ? the one we determined from the scrolling stock market things ?

Phil said...

I think Naomi was telling the truth as she knows it. I agree with Cryan.

Cryan said...

Hi dan.. Hi fat lazy guy..

When i told that 'to find the plane' i did mean that we will find the body, that was found in real life according to Naomi's story, not the one that we have seen crashed on the island.. So what i tell is, we are going to find the plane but this game will not give any idea about where the island is..

She exactly tells 'off coast Bali, 4 miles deep in an ocean TRENCH'

But on the other hand.. very nice point Jacob!! :) Who knows if she tells the truth or not :)

Rafael said...

Good point of view. I guess you are right.

Enrico said...

Completely agree with you, cryan!

@ jacob: remember that Cooper also said the exact same thing, so 1) why should have he lied about that? and 2) how come he said the same things naomi said, without even knowing her?

dharmabum14 said...

What if Talbot takes The Christiane I to the Sunda trench to set up an alibi to go with the 'film' we saw on the news broadcast of the fuselage deep underwater? This is necessarily dark film, so it can easily be CG-faked. And they said they couldn't show any shots of the dead passengers, out of respect. How convenient. This would all be to take attention far away from the location of the island, which is way over near Fiji. Maybe Sam will find out that this faking is being cooked up.

Thomasriekki said...

I think it's a great theory!
Another theory could be that the plane found near Bali was planted by Hanso, Widmore, Paik, etc... so that people would stop looking for it and keep the location of the island secret.

Thomasriekki said...

dharmabum14, I believe the footage you are talking about was fake and made by some fans months ago...

dharmabum14 said...

Yes, but it would be easy to get caught submerging a whole jet. Why bother when a little animation will do the trick? The just need the trail of a boat for nosey journalists to sniff out.

dharmabum14 said...

Oh, I didn't know about the fake footage. The above comment was made before yours went up. Nevertheless this could be what Talbot is up to.

Charlie08 said...

Quote Cryan:
- In final of Season 3: Jack was flying over the 'world' various times by using 'the gold pass' given.. (According to his words: ..gold pass given to US!-According to me all the ones who could leave the island.. (Season 4 trailer says that 'someone' will be able to leave the island)): So it means that Oceanic is on duty! Which means that this happened AFTER the game...

nice work cryan, but

we are not 100% sure how far into the future jack and kate are, D&C told us the Flashforwards could happen anytime into the future so that could of been 5-10 yrs after they got off the island, no one exactly knows until we get some more LOST / find815 info. ATM im not sure what timeline we are working with

Ithilen said...

HEY! Not sure how to post this on the blog itself but Sam Thomas just friended Gary Troup on facebook, Gary's picture is a three masted vessel that could represent the Black Rock. I don't think it's a fan fake because Sam is his only friend.

Jeff said...

We know that Naomi is with these new outsiders, and Charlie lets Desmond know they are not with Penny, so there's a very real possibility she's lying.

Jake Chambers said...

Hm... I assumed we'd find the plane in this game as a given... by the title...
And why do you all stick to the word "dissapeared"? Never heard about a similar case like this one? While a search is ongoing, everything (or everyone) is just "missing" or "dissapeared". I mean, if they say in the FIRST VIDEO in the game that they didn't find it, well of course it means they still don't know what happened to the plane.
So I have a few theses what happens:
1. We find the plane as Naomi described it - this seems unlikely, since the Christine I doesn't seem to be that well equipped, and besides, Oceanic stopped looking and I think it would take their action to make a search that big as sending little robots down there.
2. We find only the plane, without the bodies, but under pressure to give some answers about the whereabouts of the passangers, Oceanic lies to have found them all, dead.
3. We find only the partial wreckage.
4. Something unexpected, like Sam getting killed, or prevented to further investigate (like X-Files and stuff...)

lastxcallforsin said...

There going to find Flight 815 by the end of the story. The size of the ship and technology aboard doesn't matter. I'm sure once they find evidence that the wreckage is down there and tell the world, a full investigation will be conducted.

Jake Chambers said...

What? The size of the ship and technology doesn't matter? So, by you, they could have taken a fisherboat to look for it, too? lol...

jandredesz said...

I think that the freighter is going out to the trench to plant at least the fuselage of a plane, if not many more pieces of a plane, so that later Oceanic can say they "found" 815 and the search can cease.

Talbot comes from diamond money, his family may have obtained those diamonds on the island and therefore wish for the island not to be found. Planting these plane parts would serve their interests.

But I do see what Cryan is saying, from the tone of certain posts recently, it seems that some may be hoping that we will find the location of the island in this game. I don't think that's going to happen either. Those I am enjoying the sheer quality of the videos this time, the actors are far superior to those of TLE. It feels like we're watching bits of the show almost. I love it.

Stuart said...

As I've said before we (the audience) already know where Flight 815 is, or at least we know it is not under water near Bali, so if Sam is going to find 815 he is going to end up on the Island (I think that unlikely but I guess he seems like a good enough actor)...If when people are posting comments like “we will find flight 185 at the end of the game” what they actually mean is “we will find a Fake Flight 815” it would aide clarity if they actually said this.
Having said that, finding fake wreckage would pose more questions that in would answer. Yes we would know for sure that Naomi and Cooper (if who we see on the Island is Cooper) were telling the truth. But then who faked the under water plane...If Oceanic Airlines were in any way complicit in the faking I doubt they would be allowed to operate once it turns out there were survivors (and we know it does because Jack is flying all over the world on Oceanic planes). So is the cover up maintained after Jack leaves the Island, doesn't feel like it because Jack goes back to work et cetera. So who (if anyone) could trick an airline and all the other independent bodies necessary into think a wreck had been found?...It seems more likely that both Cooper and Naomi are lying, even though with the information we currently have it's hard to explain why they would both be reading from the same script, so to speak.

Stuart said...

Sorry it ought to read "pose more questions than it would answer"

Proof reading is not my strength.

feddawg said...

Once again the main point here is backstory, something to explain or validate Naomi and Cooper's story for those of us who have more than a passing interest. We are also finding out the first bits and pieces of the Black Rock's story with more to come before the games end. While the casual observers of the show will not dwell over the hows and whys the dedicated fandom wants some of the holes filled in. Will there be some twists, yes but we wouldn't want it any other way. I would say the "trench wreckage" will be found, I was not "planted" by Oceanic or they would not be flying in Jack's FF. Something more of the Black Rock's story will be told and the Earhart story will tie in. The last 2 stories with their location of going missing being in the same vicinity will lead the search to the area of the island. I don't believe the game or the characters in the game will actually get there. but they will be somehow tied to the group that does. The other thing I wonder, is the ARG produced by an Australian company due to the ongoing screen writers strike. If so this could explain some of the continuity errors we have seen in the game.

Goodwin said...

Well, personally, I think Naomi will be on the Christiane I with Sam. We just have not yet seen her. I think the game will lead up to the point that Naomi crashed onto the island. What do you all think.

feddawg said...

I think in the video of the Christiane I there is not room for one helicopter let alone two. The boat Sam is on could in no way be described as a freighter.

feddawg said...

My prediction is the "wreckage" will be discovered in the game late in the next chapter or early in the fourth chapter.

Hipster Doofus said...

I think this game must remain tangential to the story of Lost. Most fans don't even know about it.

Jack said...

So, I think the Christiane I is not the ship Naomi is from.

I think Sam and others like him were putting big pressure on Oceanic, so they decided to nip it all in the bud and let them find a fake wreck.

They already have planted the fake airplane in the trench. Everything we are seeing now is Oceanic manipulating Sam to "search" for the plane and "find" it. I think the fake news video is likely very accurate. Hey look we found the plane way deep - can't get it out - can't show the bodies, but we found them all - no survivors.

What I'm not sure about is whether the end of the ARG will be Sam finding the fake plane and believing the lie, or whether he will discover the truth that it is a sham, thus setting up for season 4 premiere.

JLSK

Jack said...

Just a clarification - I think the fake fan made news video everyone saw of the found plane underwater is likely very accurate to what will happen in the ARG.

Twinkle said...

In skimming over the theories and comments, I feel a sinking in my stomach. I never considered before that the ARG's purpose was to find the fake 815 wreckage but I'm beginning to believe now, much to my dismay. How much more exciting for Sam to find the island!

Anthony is the evidence (albeit tentative) that Naomi wasn't lying about the wreckage being found. It does seem to be in the location towards which Sam is heading. The ARG could be occurring on the timeline before Oceanic found the "815 wreckage" and therefore before Penny and Charlie's conversation (assuming no time distortion) and before Naomi and the freighter left for the island.

Talbot could be part of the Others' network or whoever else might have faked the wreckage. His job is to make sure the fake gets found and reported. In that case Sam's e-mails would be coming from the Others/bad guys/whoever faked the wreckage. What better spokesman than a publicly distraught grieving lover to convince people the wreckage is real?

I agree about posing more questions than answering. For instance, why is Naomi seemingly posing to be from Penny and yet seem surprised to find actual 815 survivors on the island? I like the idea that Naomi's freighter (which I don't think is the smaller Christiane) was sent by Widmore. Also if Amelia on the island is Amelia Earhart, what about the Others made her stay with them?

Twinkle said...

Do we have any evidence about who owns Oceanic?

Thomasriekki said...

People seem to think that Oceanic would have to pull the cover up. But realized they couldn't due to the fact that they go back into business. It could be one of the companies introduced in the last ARG. They all have the money and power to pull a cover up like that and would have interests in keeping the island secret...

Stuart said...

Allowing that what is true in Rachel Blake's universe is true in Sam's/the show's:

Do we think Hanso is now back in charge of the foundation or Mittelwerk? how motivated are either of these people to cover up Flight 815?

Again allowing the first thing remember that we already know quite alot about the black rock.

I do think that the the purpose of Sam's story is to let us know that that Naomi's story is false and she knows/knew (is she dead or alive) it is false. Cooper's story concurs because he has 'bought' the cover up..we wont know who Naomi is or who did the cover up yet (not Oceanic because of what i said before).

Where does that leave us with time? Sam's story doesn't feel like it's happening in the past to me, so if Naomi is referring to "the cover up" rather the straight up lying, then time moves more slowly on the Island...Or i'm wrong as alot of people feel, about when Sam's story is happening.

fake said...

Talbot could be part of the Others' network or whoever else might have faked the wreckage. His job is to make sure the fake gets found and reported. In that case Sam's e-mails would be coming from the Others/bad guys/whoever faked the wreckage. What better spokesman than a publicly distraught grieving lover to convince people the wreckage is real?


I agree, but there's something missing here... Sam finds the fake wreckage, believes it, the search for the flight 815 stops, Oceanic is flying again. But then, Jack and some other people leave the island, showing the world there WERE survivors of 815. Oceanic would lose credibility. They wouldn't give Jack a 'gold pass', and be working again very successfully. Even if they were not connected to the fact, I don't think anyone would believe it.

What could Oceanic do to make up for creating a fake wreckage? I dunno. And the game's not gonna last that long so we could find it out.

feddawg said...

Whoever Naomi is with they did not expect to find survivors of 815. She makes the comment to Hurley as she wakes up after recovering from Patchy's first aid. I believe that makes the freighter that is at the island unrelated to the group Sam is with. Along with this is the guy in the preview saying that "saving you is not our primary objective." So my take is there are multiple groups looking for the island with multiple motives.

Also the revelation that the Black Rock was loaded with gold to pay for slaves in Africa expains how the others are able to finance some of the accomodations in "Otherville."

feddawg said...

From a realworld standpoint the last thing Oceanic would ever do is "fake" wreckage. Modern aircraft being what they are someday something could and would wash ashore so it would not be a matter of if they got caught but when. I would be more inclined to believe the Others would fake the wreckage to keep a search away from the island, they are the ones who know where the actual wreckage is and would benefit from a fake being discovered.

dharmabum14 said...

Don't you think the Oceanic crib mobile in the nursery shows that the airline is in bed with the consortium that finances the island?

b r u n o said...

but Naomi is a liar...
we can't trust her.. she said that the boat was penny's.. therefore, I don't believe in her story about the 815 body..

Raphael said...

I'm still very confused about when Sam's story is happening... In his first video, he says Oceanic Flight 815 crashed in September, 22nd, but hides the year... Then on the Oceanic website, the press release is from 2007... So we should assume Sam is on Cristiane I in 2008, and Oceanic gave up searching for 815 in 2007... But the plane fell on 2004!!!! What is really going on with the timeline here, people???

Jake Chambers said...

@bruno: Again, if Naomi was lying, what about Cooper? They don't know each other, but they said the same thing... huh?

lastxcallforsin said...

Time on the island passes slower relative to the rest of the world. I think this game is making that quite obvious. This story is taking place in 2007/2008 and Naomi arrived on the island in 2004 (Losties time line).

Wu Li Master said...

Naomi could be lying of course, but to what end? she could be telling the truth, in which case Oceanic could be lying, but to what end?

If they're just a commercial airline company I don't think it would make any difference whether or not the wreckage was found, from a 'damage limitation' point of view. If there's more to Oceanic, something sinister, then perhaps they might fabricate a situation that would benefit them.

But lets say everyone is telling the truth and the wreckage HAS been found (following the conclusion of this game and before the end of season 3) - then how can we explain this, given the plane crashed on the island?

well, didn't the islanders mention the fact that unusual tidal activity was washing most of the original beach camp into the ocean - including the fuselage with the bodies (Whatever the Case May Be - Jack: "At the rate this beach is eroding the fuselage is going to be underwater in a matter of days!"). Maybe the ISLAND washed it out to sea to be found. 'But the bodies were burnt!' I hear you say. 'Will investigators believe they burned under water?' It could be explained by a midair ignition of the plane's fuel, becoming a fireball before ocean impact. An investigating team having found this fuselage could easily conclude that there were no survivors.

I know I'm labouring the point, but it's a logical explanation rather than resorting to the fantastical. The only paranormal part is the Islands involvement. But surely no-one on this site doubts the sentient nature of the Island or those who hide there and control it (Jacob and the Whispers?).

Jake Chambers said...

And again... what about Cooper?

Wu Li Master said...

what about him?

Jake Chambers said...

How do you mean what about him? If Naomi was lying about the plane having been found... why did Cooper lie to? How on earth did he have the same info as she did when they didn't know each other?

dharmabum14 said...

Naomi and Cooper both heard news broadcasts that 815 had been found, so that places Sam's search in a time frame previous to the end of S3. It makes sense that the ARG would fill in gaps without advancing the story beyond the last cliff-hanger. I think the emails Sam received directing him to the Sunda Trench were planted by the financiers who control the island and Oceanic Airlines. Maybe if only a few Losties leave the island, they'll have some story about surviving the wreck, since the trench is quite close to Indonesia.

Wu Li Master said...

jake, I'm assuming both Naomi and Cooper are BOTH telling the TRUTH. "But lets say everyone is telling the truth and the wreckage HAS been found.." is the beginning of my 3rd paragraph. It's more complicated to assume they're lying.

oy?

Jake Chambers said...

Don't you oy me... it still hurts not to be with that bumbler (lol).

Hm... how explain? Well, LOST TIME :D Time-wrap, something... I'm a big fan of space-time continuum stories... and besides, in the clip show prior to the S3 finale, Darlton said that the Losties are alive, "somewhere in the Space-time continuum"... it could mean they're just on a regular island with big EM-interference so it can't be seen, OR... they're in some other dimension or something... :D

dharmabum14 said...

The whispers always make me want to think the Losties are asleep like in The Matrix, which LOST has often nodded to. We can't ignore the major gaps in the flow of normal reality – like when Charlie, John and Eko turn up intact after the demolition of the Swan. Reboot?

Jake Chambers said...

Well... Charlie was deaf, John was mute, and Eko was hurt...

dharmabum14 said...

Those were cartoon injuries, considering there was nothing left but a crater.

b r u n o said...

Wu li master:
"If there's more to Oceanic, something sinister, then perhaps they might fabricate a situation that would benefit them."

That's the only explanation wich makes sense for me considering that Naomi and Cooper are telling the "truth".. I don't believe that they are dead or are in some kind of parallel universe...

BUT, there is something strange in the relation of those facts.. and about Jack and Kate in the future? Would not they tell everybody that were 815's survivors?

dharmabum14 said...

Say the discovery of 815 is faked in the Sunda Trench to take attention away from the Fiji area. It's close enough to Indonesia that a few survivors could turn up. The people who take Jack and Kate off the island – to Indonesia – could make a deal with them to go along with that story. And they could be taken away under cover so they don't know where the island is.

Wu Li Master said...

Jack: "At the rate this beach is eroding, the fuselage is going to be underwater in a matter of days!

Doesn't anybody think it's possible Sam and co will discover the actual wreckage that the Island washed away?

ps: Jake, sorry about the bumbler!

dharmabum14 said...

The more I'm reminded of that line the more I think it was there for a reason. It would certainly solve the problem of the distance between a near-Fiji location for the island and the wreck being discovered in the Sunda Trench. If the Christiane I is looking for the Black Rock in the Sunda Trench region, then that must be where the island is. The fuselage could roll right down the trench. This way, Jack and Kate can be lifted off the island and turn up as survivors of 815 in Indonesia.