Update: 5:15 GMT
Thanks to feddawg for sending me this additional info.
With the hidden reference clues to James Clerk Maxwell in the recap video tonight and the link to the 68 page .pdf file that contains the theories on electromagnetism and the bending of light due to it's electromagnetic properties I believe we were given an answer tonight. The answer lies in how the island is invisible to the world while existing in plain sight. After scanning through the paper I couldn't help think that it seemed familiar and it is. The embodiment of Maxwell's theories were put to the test by the U.S. Navy at the end of WWII in the Philadelphia Experiment. This was the Navy's attempt to render a ship invisible by bending light through the use of a strong electromagnetic field. The results of that experiment have become the source of legend, but rumors have circulated for years that the ship was rendered invisible, teleported to another location, and traveled through time, all themes of Lost. I think as well the people participating in chat tonight that we have been provided with an answer tonight to one of the riddles of the island, why it can't be found, as well as supporting evidence for Desmond's time travel after the implosion, and some of the medical anomilies of the island. Thanks to Will, KeepingPace, AfflictedMuse, Cjojojo, Mando and all the others I can't remember for elaborating on this after I introduced this on the chat.
Source: Find 815
Original Post:
Thanks to Will for sending this speculation over. Hopefully Dark can confirm if these users are real or not.
User "Lasagna Resumes" (the user who's been talking in anagrams) was pretty active tonight in the chatroom, and led us to some interesting discoveries, along with "OurMutualFriend42"... User "feddawg" probably already told you guys about how "Lasagna Resumes" led us to information about the Philadelphia Experiment, but after that, he went silent for about an hour, and then user "OurMutualFriend42" sent only one message, only once: There are "More than 62 million of them" yet only one 3xuq4k. A few minutes later, "Lasagna Resumes" came back to the chatroom.
User "AfflictedMuse" googled the exact quotation "More than 62 million of them", which leads to only one entry, which is "tinyurl.com". Turns out this website has the subtitle "Making long URLs usable! More than 62 million of them. Over 1.6 billion hits/month.", and is actually a way to make url's shorter. User "AfflictedMuse" then used "3xuq4k" as the tinyurl subdirectory, which comes to http://tinyurl.com/3xuq4k, and corresponds to a wikipedia page about "Closed timelike curve (CTC)". We kept asking user "Lasagna Resumes" about the CTC's and it's "Light Cones", and he kept saying we were on the right track "carrot knight (anagram)". I even talked about the island being caught up in a CTC, and "Lasagna Resumes" said that was a right track, and said Good Work (word gook).
So, if "Lasagna Resumes" and "OurMutualFriend42" are real, they wanted us to know about CTCs, and probably the island is related to it. All of Lasagna's posts were really consistent, and lasted a long time in the chatroom, so it really seems like a serious user. OurMutualFriend42 was consistent too, sending only one message, as she usually does.
List of anagrams used repeatedly and in a very logical manner through the night by user "Lasagna Resumes"(useless anagrams):
gee strings = Greetings
carrot knight = right track
wreckage intro = i see wrong track
footage munches = focus on the game
a watermelon err = more answers later
obey frown = bye for now
word gook = good work
mistread putt = i must depart
Source: Find 815
54 comments:
Is it a coincidence that the wiki-page talks about Minkowski Space [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minkowski_space] and one of the men on the frighter is called Minkowski as well?
The Minkowski Space is named after a german mathematician called Hermann Minkowski [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Minkowski], who was teaching Albert Einstein.
lasagna is an italian type of pasta
Just wanted to put this into the mix. Stephen Hawking's book "A Brief History of Time" (the book Aldo was reading before Kate and Sawyer pulled the old Wookie Prisoner Gag on him AND was seen on Ben's bookshelf) discusses light cones and time travel. I cannot remember if CTCs are mentioned either in ABHoT or Hawking's other book "The Universe in a Nutshell".
about the anagrams...
carrot knight is
right ON track
wreckage intro can be
wrong track (but there would be I-E-E left unused) (maybe it was wreckages intro?)
a watermelon err has no Ss, so it'd leave
more an_wer_ later
just an observation...
xaren:
i was in the chat room last night and someone started talking about the minkowski space and lasagna told us "wreckage intro" (aka wrong track) which led us to start discussing light cones. BUT obviously they assign names for reasons, so it will be interesting to find out exactly who minkowski is in season 4.
Is lasagna an anagram? Someone run an anagram thing on him
Well, there have been a number of CTC-related theories on the forums. So anyone interested can probably be saved from a lot of grunt work. Happy reading.
I do doubt, however, that they would blow the whole main premise of a show by spoon-feeding info to a chat room.
It would be nice if we could verify any or all of the info.
Is he/she visiting other chatrooms? I dont see why they would only come here? (Sorry to agree with the Doc, dont hate me)
Is he/she visiting other chatrooms? I dont see why they would only come here? (Sorry to agree with the Doc, dont hate me)
Don't worry we won't hate you lol :)
What people don't realise is that they DID go to other large sites. They went to Lostpedia and Fuselage and some others but people there thought they were trolls and deleted their posts. We didn't so that's why you see their info here.
It's been there since the pilot episode.
S1E1 Boone: "Maybe we should do one of those hole things. You know, stick the pen in the throat?"
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole :
"A wormhole could allow time travel. This could be accomplished by accelerating one end of the wormhole to a high velocity relative to the other, and then sometime later bringing it back; relativistic time dilation would result in the accelerated wormhole mouth aging less than the stationary one as seen by an external observer, similar to what is seen in the twin paradox. However, time connects differently through the wormhole than outside it, so that synchronized clocks at each mouth will remain synchronized to someone traveling through the wormhole itself, no matter how the mouths move around. This means that anything which entered the accelerated wormhole mouth would exit the stationary one at a point in time prior to its entry. For example, if clocks at both mouths both showed the date as 2000 before one mouth was accelerated, and after being taken on a trip at relativistic velocities the accelerated mouth was brought back to the same region as the stationary mouth with the accelerated mouth's clock reading 2005 while the stationary mouth's clock read 2010, then a traveler who entered the accelerated mouth at this moment would exit the stationary mouth when its clock also read 2005, in the same region but now five years in the past. Such a configuration of wormholes would allow for a particle's world line to form a closed loop in spacetime, known as a CLOSED TIMELIKE CURVE."
From http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-wormhole.htm :
"If wormholes could exist, they could also function as time machines. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, time passes more slowly for a highly accelerated body. If one end of a wormhole were accelerated to close to the speed of light while another were stationary, a traveller entering into the stationary hole would emerge in the past from the accelerated hole. This type of wormhole would be called a CLOSED TIMELIKE CURVE or a timehole."
Another anagram said by "Lasagna Reseumes" not listed in the post:
a repentant toils
Lol if you read in CTC's page on wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.o,rg/wiki/Closed_timelike_curve ) it clearly says that the first person that raised the possibility of CTC's existence is a certain Willem JACOB van Stockum... :)
Maybe we've found TPTB's inspiration for that name??
A sentient portal?
A polestar intent?
Ahh, that explains it. Im glad s/he is here, even thou my head feels like it's gonna explode with the info sometimes, lol!!
Everyone here is v friendly, been wary of posting on many sites b4, can get your head bitten off if your not carrful. Thanx Dark and everyone else involved
"A SENTIENT PORTAL" has a JJ Abrams connection, through "Star Trek XI":
PLOT SPOILER MAY FOLLOW:
"(Someone has leaked, oh, pretty much the whole plot. So don't say we didn't warn you!) The way the Romulans see it, James T. Kirk IS the Federation. Without him, it's just possible that the Romulans would be in control of the Alpha Quadrant and then some. But it needn't have turned out the way it did, so Romulan Nero (Eric Bana) comes up with a plan - go to the City on the Edge of Forever, and use the Guardian of Forever (a living, sentient portal through time and space) to go back and wipe Kirk out before he can become a problem. But when older Spock (Leonard Nimoy) learns of the plan, he decides to go back and save his dear friend. He knows he'll need help to accomplish his momentous task, and the logical place to look is within himself - so he enlists young Spock (Zachary Quinto) to aid him in his quest."
http://www.scifiunited.com/community/index.php?showtopic=6819
another anagram not listed:
obey frown = web for you
Thanks Sandi :) I try to only pick good friendly people to help out on my sites. I'm glad you enjoy it here and find it a friendly place.
That's exactly what I hope for on all my sites.
A Primer on Time Travel: Figure (A)
Jules made her mark on the Island.
I'm pretty sure Boone was talking about the classic Bic Pen Tracheotomy. I think the wormhole thing is a bit of a stretch (maybe it was even said in jest?)
I'm sure this question has been raised before, but doesn't it seem somewhat unlikely that time progresses at a different pace on the island as sun and moon cycles seem to be unchanged? If time were passing any differently on and off the island, it seems like day and night on island would either be much shorter (if time were faster on the island) or much longer (if time moved slower on island). Just a thought, and it doesn't detract from the islands potential invisibility. Any ideas?
"obey frown" doesn't = "web for you"
Also there 66,000 possibilities for "a repentent toils" so good luck with that one. Some of them do include the word ALIEN though. I found that interesting.
In addition, after reading more about the Philadelphia Experiment, i think that the story about the USS Eldridge could be related to Juliets trip in the submarine to the Island. this might be why she was tranquilized for the trip. Just a thought. Happy Hunting
knives2gunfights:
yes-i think if i understand you- time does move diff. on the island-but i'm not following you and the sun and moon cycles. BUT i do know that if you check out Light Cones on wikipedia (there is a link from the CTC page) it offers an explanation as to how time could be slow on the island, and regular time everywhere else. sorry, i may have confused you even more. it makes sense in my head, but putting it in words, is a challenge.
Just something I came across while researching the Philadelphia Experiment on wikipedia. In the section detailing a synopsis of the experiment, the article reads:
The alleged physiological effects of the experiment on the crew were profound: almost all of the crew were violently ill. Some were alleged to have suffered from mental illness as a result of their experience; behavior consistent with schizphrenia is described in other accounts. Still other members, like Jacob D. Murray, were physically unaccounted for — supposedly “vanished” — and five of the crew were allegedly fused to the metal bulkhead or deck of the ship. Still others were said to fade in and out of sight. Sometimes they would disappear, and burst into flames. ..........
See anything familiar?? Jacob D. Murray! Could this be our JACOB???
Just a thought guys!!
Actually, I'm just after reading the Philadelphia Experiment article on wikipedia again and it mentions that some of the crew involved in the experiment suffered from behavior consistent with schizphrenia. Schizphrenia is decribed as "is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a mental illness characterized by impairments in the perception or expression of reality, most commonly manifesting as auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions....". Didn't Hurley, Jack, Locke, Kate and Eko all have what could be decribed as "hallucinations" when they saw people on the island the were not really there!?! Just another thought!!!!
Maybe someone have already mentioned this, but one of anagrams for Lasagna Resumes is "Anagram Useless" :D
they were having what appeared to be delusions ie. the horse, remi, dave, chrisian shepard before the hatch exploded. But i guess that it could be chalked up to the day of the crash when desmond hesitated with the numbers, either way i'll be really disappointed if all the things are explained away in this manner.
The only way I can see them doing a big reveal like this is if it wasn't confirmed until the very last moments of the game and then have it directly tie in to the S4 premiere some how. I have no idea what is going to happen in the premiere but, I doubt the question of how the island is hidden from view will be answered in this game or at this point in the show. I could be wrong and if I am I don't want to know till thursday.
Saw documentary once about oceans that used the (equivalent of space terms). The Atlantic and Pacific oceans connect via wormhole. the blackhole formed as part of the 'bermuda triangle' to the 'dragon's triangle' as the figurative lighthole. Both areas volatile due to high levels of magnetic energy with potential to become (electrically) "charged".
During these reactions, electrical-magnetic phenomenon develop. These conditions allow for all of the scientific phenom referenced; Maxwell, Maxwell's demons, Terrella, CTCs, time distortion/flashbacks and flash forwards.
The magnetic distortions can move north on compasses and navigational equipment by anywhere from 45 to 75 degrees or more. And are suspected to be able to even flip S and N.
These and similar properties have inspired concepts like the Philidelphia Experiment, etc. and figuratively Dharma's. The location of research station ties into the wormhole theory,as it is suspected to be in line between the Poles. The phenomenon has Every thing to do with the properties of the Earth's core. The island based on locale and the latest info is "invisible", the Black Rock (which remember, the majority is Not under water)probably sailed/crashed right into the island during one of these spontaneous electomagnetic storms -- like Desmond's sail boat. So Desmond still could have been setup based on the waterways selected to be used for the boatrace. (If you set course through the Bermuda or Dragon's triangle for example, you can expect strong possibility of a fluke storm.) It could still all be coincidence too (right!)
And, what happened when Ben send a message for help/reinforcements before the last set of events began at the end (did he sever ties with Dharma/Hanso/Widmore/Maxwell) or do those remain intact. The island is a focus for anyone interested in that type of energy so Penny could be looking for the island. Did she already know that Desmond was there? Was the freighter's trip initated by Ben?
Saw documentary once about oceans that used the (equivalent of space terms). The Atlantic and Pacific oceans connect via wormhole. the blackhole formed as part of the 'bermuda triangle' to the 'dragon's triangle' as the figurative lighthole. Both areas volatile due to high levels of magnetic energy with potential to become (electrically) "charged".
During these reactions, electrical-magnetic phenomenon develop. These conditions allow for all of the scientific phenom referenced; Maxwell, Maxwell's demons, Terrella, CTCs, time distortion/flashbacks and flash forwards.
The magnetic distortions can move north on compasses and navigational equipment by anywhere from 45 to 75 degrees or more. And are suspected to be able to even flip S and N.
These and similar properties have inspired concepts like the Philidelphia Experiment, etc. and figuratively Dharma's. The location of research station ties into the wormhole theory,as it is suspected to be in line between the Poles. The phenomenon has Every thing to do with the properties of the Earth's core. The island based on locale and the latest info is "invisible", the Black Rock (which remember, the majority is Not under water)probably sailed/crashed right into the island during one of these spontaneous electomagnetic storms -- like Desmond's sail boat. So Desmond still could have been setup based on the waterways selected to be used for the boatrace. (If you set course through the Bermuda or Dragon's triangle for example, you can expect strong possibility of a fluke storm.) It could still all be coincidence too (right!)
And, what happened when Ben send a message for help/reinforcements before the last set of events began at the end (did he sever ties with Dharma/Hanso/Widmore/Maxwell) or do those remain intact. The island is a focus for anyone interested in that type of energy so Penny could be looking for the island. Did she already know that Desmond was there? Was the freighter's trip initated by Ben?
If this theory is correct how could the others just up and hop into a submarine and go to the US whenever they pleased?
the Submarine could contain a similar the electromagnet device that was on the USS Eldridge
And thus act as a transport mechanism to the real world?
a time machine built out of a submarine to transport Dharma people to and from the island
remember the writers have said many times that the mythology of the island is rooted in real science.
This ARG could be their way of getting that out there and proving their statements.
njk - the Phila Experiment page on Wiki has some uncanny tie-ins to the lost story.
Also ties into Valenzetti as a way to save the world from impending doom..
I think at this point the cat is out of the bag.
Nice job writers.. very creative story line.
is it a Delorean submarine?
I'm pretty sure Boone was talking about the classic Bic Pen Tracheotomy. I think the wormhole thing is a bit of a stretch (maybe it was even said in jest?)
Of course Boone was talking about the tracheotomy procedure - on the surface. Viewers watching the first episode of the show had no reason to suspect that wormholes would have anything to do with the plot, especially since the show was initially promoted as a survivor-type drama, while the sci-fi aspect was played down.
This is the kind of verbal wordplay that the producers can come back to later to demonstrate that the major plot points were in place from the start. The early episodes are excellent places to look for such clues, because the producers had no idea how long the show would last.
The hole motif has been repeated many times: the cocoon hole in "The Moth," the cave-in, Smokey pulling Locke down a hole, the White Rabbit, the creation of the golf course, the rock with the hole in the middle, CrapHOLE island, Hurley referring to the hatch opening as the "burning death hole," the Tailies' hole for prisoners, and the pneumatic tube in the Pearl, among them.
And if Lasagna Resumes really used the anagram "a repentant toils," then "a sentient portal" seems like the logical translation, especially given Smokey's nature.
I know that this is a little off track but i wanted to bring up a couple of things:
If the magnetic anomaly is accurate and that's why the Black Rock, Rousseau's Ship and Desmond's ship crashed on the island, then how does the Black Rock end up so far inland(near the antenna)
Why have we never seen the wreckage of Rousseau's Ship.
And another thing with Rousseau, why does she say that she'd never seen any of the others before she caught Ben(henry gale) when she'd lived on the island for 16 years? Especially since she was there before the purge and the Others presumably would have been passing thru the jungle more regularly.
I heard on one of the podcasts that she will be getting a flashback within the next two seasons. They have a lotta explaining to do with her story.
if we talk about time dilation using Einstein's general relativity then it should be said that this can only happen with very high speeds (near the speed of light, which is about 300 000 kilometres per second). if the time dilation would be taking place (the time on the island passes slower when observing from the outside) the island should be travelling with a speed close to the speed of light. how would that affect normal day/night cycles? and where it would go ? :)
and for the people on the island time would not pass slower, but for an outside observer it would pass slower in relative to his time own frame. so this should not prevent people from not getting older as their body would age normally. this must be done by something else.
the time/space could be also bent by a very massive/dense object (like a black hole). i may be wrong about that, but that object would have to be more massive than the Earth itself for it to affect time/space on the planet.
I am very interested in these theories but I just find it all suspect when all the Others need is a plain old submarine to go "recruit" people from the US. The plot holes are to big for this plus I just think that this extreme electromagnetic/physics stuff isn't as exciting as I'd hoped.
The Richard Alpert, Amelia Earhart, 4 toed statue, temple, Jacob stuff would be too bland if it's just some sort of Star Trek the Next Generation answer.
What about the spiritual aspect of the show?
also - what accounts for the meteor that kills Tricia Tanaka?
how does an electromagnetic disturbance in the Pacific, or in the Sunda Trench, cause all this misery so far away?
"The alleged physiological effects of the experiment on the crew were profound: almost all of the crew were violently ill. Some were alleged to have suffered from mental illness"
Could be describing what Rousseau's crew experienced and what she refers to as 'the sickness'
seems like we, as fans, are trying to fill plot holes. But then we're also learning stuff that we had NO idea about. That being said - I am enjoying all of this play!
I'm confused.
Josh Bryant, remember what's religion for the ancients.. When they came across to something they could not explain, they used religion.. And I think a big part of LOST is made in this way..
My questions are:
1) How could Michael exit the island with just a boat? Is the direction given by Ben a "portal" to get outside this big Philadelphia Experiment?
2) With the explosion of the hatch, is the island visible?
3) When a boat (from the "outside") come across the magnetic field what happens? Something like Desmond's "trip in circles" at the beginning of Season 2?
Cheers!
Check this video out that I found
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0oMlUqAt1Q
Also, I remember from the original Lost ARG there was a picture of a light cone so I found it again and thought I'd include a link here in case some of you hadn't seen it before. http://globespotter.com/science/
All taken from Kerr Metric linked to from Closed Timelike Curve
"....The outer horizon encloses the ergosphere and has an oblate spheroid shape, a flattened sphere similar to a discus. The inner horizon is spherical and marks the "radius of no return"; objects passing through this radius can never again communicate with the world outside that radius....."
"...The inner sphere is the static limit (the event horizon). It is the inner boundary of a region called the ergosphere. The oblate spheroidal surface, touching the event horizon at the poles, is the outer boundary of the ergosphere...."
"...such as some forms of time travel. For example, the Kerr metric permits closed, time-like loops in which a band of travellers returns to the same place after moving for a finite time by their own clock; however, they return to the same place and time, as seen by an outside observer...."
"...As with the event horizon in the Schwarzschild metric the apparent singularities at (r)inner and (r)outer are an illusion created by the choice of coordinates (ie they are coordinate singularities). In fact, the space-time can be smoothly continued through them by an appropriate choice of coordinates....
"...Since the trajectory of observers and particles in general relativity are described by time-like curves, it is possible for observers in this region to return to their past...."
We shouldnt blame the Producers if they have some creative freedom with all the scientific theories, after all its the mystery part that makes us love the show so much isnt it?
just to throw this out there... i was discussing a theory in chat yesterday... it doesn't matter if we know all the equations or technical stuff, if we just keep an open mind... but here it is.
the cone theory (probably posted elsewhere): imagine a cone. imagine the island and in particular the swan station were at the point of that cone. light/space/time cone, whichever.
it seems the magnetic anomoly would be strongest at that point, which would explain why the swan was built on that particular spot.
to continue: to travel into, or out of, that cone... one could not travel in a straight line. think of going straight up in a tornado... it won't happen. you must travel in a spiral. now think of the cone as stationary. if you travel straight east (or west), you're going in a circle. if you travel north (a direction away from the island) the curve of the space brings you back around to the center. if you travel south (a direction toward the island) the curve of the space brings you back away from the island. in other words, if you try to get off, you can't and if you 'sail' directly toward it... you just end up going back away from it, out of the cone. but if you travel in a spiral toward the center... voila.
the fibinacci (i can't spell) sequence is used to draw a spiral. i've seen this demonstrated with boxes (boxes... hmmm) of ever decreasing size, ending at the center, which is like infinitely small or whatever. the chart plotter has boxes on its grid. that's what made me think of this.
michael and walt could escape in a boat if they navigate a spiral outward... the sub could enter the cone by navigating a spiral inward... causing severe dizziness? they just have to know where to start and stop... we may already have the end coordinates. is this what sam must do? talbot knows. that's why he laughed at straightforward sam.
i forgot to mention that inside this cone... light might be 'bent' causing both the invisibility and the big dipper being backward problem... indeed the sun might be rising in the west instead of the east... the losties wouldn't know since the magnetic field would render compasses inaccurate(?). this could also explain why, after living on the island for 16 yrs. rousseau hadn't noticed another island...possibly a stretch, but...
who knows... i'm just speculating on all this anyway.
ok so here's my question. if the explanation to the show is something along these lines like we have all been talking about, how the heck are they going to explain it in the show to just the average viewer?? all of us here are hardcore fans, and we are having a hard time grasping it. well not maybe not hard for all, but certainly not easy, so for people who just watch the show on tv and that is it, how will they ever understand all of this??
also - what accounts for the meteor that kills Tricia Tanaka?
In all the excitement over CTCs and related stuff, I think we're neglecting some early clues, like "Catch a Falling Star." A falling star is a meteorite. There have been many star-related hints dropped throughout the series.
What is the nature of the island? Is it a piece of a star that fell to Earth? Is that why we hear and see so many references to rocks, particularly *throwing* rocks? Is it made of mirror matter (aka dark matter, "dark material," antimatter)? Is it inside a hollow Earth, which could explain all the "underworld" references, Shambala, and the reflection of the cityscape in the season 4 promo?
I think fans have figured out various pieces of the puzzle, but the picture won't be complete until we fit all the pieces together. I think the ultimate explanation will involve a multitude of ideas. There is far too much going on for a single explanation (like a CTC, for instance) to cover all the bases.
it's doubtful they'll ever explain any of this,,, ever. i don't think they need to. we already know that LOST has a multitude of layers, in psychology, philosophy, myth, literature, art, pop-culture, science,,, the list goes on. this is a game and that is a tv show, not reality, and i think that's all we really need to know.
please read comments 32-35 on "stills from sams video diary 4". I tried making a connection between the ctc theory and the pic of sam with light being bent around his eye ( an allegory to why we cant see the island) with the creepy photo that was posted on flickr under the name zkillen very early on in the game. The pic has a circle around a shaggy mans head bending light, much like the still photo diagram that we just found in sams vid 4 diary. I think mb this guy tom was giving us a clue way early on, and we just didnt have the info we know now to figure it out. I think they are all related.
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